Members of the Lysander Town Board are at odds over a proposal to alter the makeup of its minutes, the official record of what happened at board meetings.
At the town board’s work session preceding its Dec. 1 meeting, Councilor Melinda Shimer suggested the minutes be simplified and only include resolutions and formal votes. Shimer’s suggestion would eliminate board member discussion and public comments from the minutes.
“It can get cumbersome to do minutes. It’s a lot of work for [Town Clerk Lisa Dell], and it’s a lot of work for us,” Shimer told The Baldwinsville Messenger.
According to the New York State Open Meetings Law, minutes must, at a minimum, “consist of a record or summary of all motions, proposals, resolutions and any other matter formally voted upon and the vote thereon.”
Shimer said having resolution-only minutes would make it easier for Dell to write the minutes and for the board to review those minutes.
Those who want to hear specific discussions can watch the town board meetings on PAC-B or view the meeting online on the town’s website, which contains a link to PAC-B’s recordings. According to Councilor Roman Diamond, people can also purchase a DVD of the meeting from PAC-B for $15.
“We’re not trying to keep anything from the public,” Supervisor John Salisbury said. He said Dell’s audio recordings of each meeting are available at the town hall, but the files are too large to put on the website.
But not everyone on the town board is behind the suggestion. On Dec. 3, Councilor Roman Diamond released a video on his personal and political Facebook pages and sent out a press release decrying Shimer’s suggestion.
“I believe there is an importance to having public comments and board discussions that transpire in a public meeting included in the recorded minutes and preserved as part of the town’s history,” Diamond said.
Diamond said $15 a DVD for a copy of the meeting is prohibitively expensive for residents who want to know what happened at the meeting, but Shimer said keeping the public from participating was not her intent in discussing a possible change.
“At no time did I say I wanted to take away the citizens’ right to speak,” Shimer said.
“It’s pretty upsetting because Roman’s misquoting us,” she added. “Roman has publicly accused me of doing illegal things before.”
She cited Diamond’s June 2014 accusation that “JAM” — as John Salisbury, Andy Reeves and Melinda Shimer are often called — had held illegal meetings without inviting Diamond or Councilor Bob Geraci. Diamond apologized after reviewing security footage which showed that Shimer had not been at the town hall when Diamond had believed she was.
In his video, Diamond also said Salisbury supported Shimer’s idea during the work session and said he would consult with town attorney Tony Rivizzigno about proposing a resolution to that effect — a claim Salisbury denied to the Messenger.
The PAC-B recording of the Dec. 1 town board meeting shows Diamond asking Salisbury whether he planned to bring a resolution changing the way the minutes are taken to the board. Salisbury replied, “I said if we wanted to we’d have to and I’d need to talk to Tony first.”
Salisbury said Diamond’s video was full of “untruths” about what really happened at the Dec. 1 work session.
This isn’t the first time the Lysander Town Board has proposed changes to the way it handles public comments. In 2011, then-Supervisor Barry Bullis eliminated the public comment period from the town board meetings, requiring residents to register their topic with the town before the meeting.
That same year, Salisbury, Andy Reeves and Shimer ran under the Lysander First coalition with “transparency” as one of their campaign planks. Salisbury was elected the town’s first Democratic supervisor; Reeves, a Republican, and Shimer, a Democrat, were elected to the town board. Salisbury has since changed his party affiliation to Conservative.
Dell, who is in charge of drafting the board’s meeting minutes, said she believes Shimer’s suggestion is politically motivated. Dell has locked horns with the town board several times since Salisbury, Shimer and Reeves took office.
“What bothers me is when those three came in office, they didn’t like the way I did the minutes,” Dell said.
She said she used to summarize board and public comments, but Salisbury wanted certain comments to be recorded verbatim. Dell said she met with Salisbury “several months ago” to agree upon the current format of the minutes, which includes a detailed summary of comments.
“We agreed to a format that he wanted,” Dell said. “Now they want to change it.”
Dell said the JAM coalition has a “hidden agenda” and “don’t want to see what they say [written down] in black and white.”
Shimer said that’s not the case.
“People can call me and ask what I said. They can watch the video and see what I said,” Shimer said. “I have nothing to hide.”
Bob Freeman, executive director of the state’s Committee on Open Government, said a town board may suggest how the clerk records meeting minutes, but ultimately, it’s the clerk’s responsibility.
“The clerk is elected and the clerk, by law, is the person authorized to control the minutes,” Freeman said.
“Technically speaking, the minutes need not be expansive,” he added. “They may include more, but they don’t have to.”
Freeman said expecting a clerk to record discussions verbatim, as Dell said Salisbury asked her to do, is unreasonable.
Freeman said as long as Dell gives each board member’s comments “equal weight” in her minutes, then he sees no problem with including board member and public comments in Lysander’s minutes.
For Salisbury, therein lies the problem: he said Dell does not give equal weight to each person’s comments.
“If Roman [Diamond] says something, it’s verbatim. If I say something, it’s cut out,” Salisbury said.
He said that all of the town board’s problems with Dell’s minutes have been the discussion items.
“They’re not Lisa’s minutes, they’re the town board’s minutes. The town clerk is not a member of the town board,” Salisbury said. “It’s important that however the minutes are done, that it be factual and not politically motivated.”
Salisbury cited the village of Baldwinsville’s meeting minutes as a model for Shimer’s suggestion. He said Baldwinsville only records resolutions and votes.
However, in an email to the town board, Dell attached a recent copy of Baldwinsville’s minutes, which shows a summary of public and board discussion.
She also said she found that the 18 other towns in Onondaga County include a summary of public and board member comments in their meeting minutes. She also noted that state law does not provide ownership of the minutes to anyone, including the town bard.
Despite the back-and-forth over Shimer’s suggestion last week, Salisbury stressed that the board simply discussed the possibility of altering the minutes process. He said there are no plans at this time to propose a resolution to that effect.
Councilor Bob Geraci told the Messenger that he would not support such a resolution. Geraci, who retired in 2009 as parks commissioner for Onondaga County, said he often referred to county legislature meeting minutes in that job and continues to do so as a town board member.
“They are so wonderful to be able to go back and read. Having that written record in front of me was invaluable,” Geraci said.
Geraci said such minutes are a good “backup” in case a recording fails. Dell also said that with changing technology, a DVD or website link may not be usable 10 years down the road, whereas written minutes are a more stable record.
“I really think it’s the responsible thing to do, not only to allow the public to speak … but to be recorded [on] the official record of the town,” Geraci added.
Despite their disagreement on the subject of the minutes, both Dell and Shimer shared their desire for town officials to work together for the good of Lysander rather than bickering constantly.
Shimer shared with the Messenger an email she wrote to Geraci about her frustrations with board infighting.
“I have to admit my frustration with Roman’s adversarial and confrontational approach to his position on the board. His public attacks are counterproductive at best,” Shimer’s email read. “I would like to think that he could consider the ice rink situation as the priority that it is and work together with the four of us to come up with a viable plan. Unfortunately he has chosen to waste time spinning the minutes conversation in a political direction.”
In her own email to the town board, Dell also called for cooperation, though she expressed dismay that the board had not invited her to the Dec. 1 work session, despite Geraci and Diamond’s requests to include her. Dell said Diamond stopped the work session to ask that she be included.
“Andy was recently quoted in the Messenger ‘that we all need to work together’ and I agree wholeheartedly,” Dell wrote. “The enormous amount of time spent on this issue seems ridiculous, as the minutes I prepare have always reflected an accurate account of what occurs at town board meetings. I would suggest that some board members put their political agendas aside and spend their time on priority issues concerning the town such as the ice rink and the need for good, quality water in the Lamson Road area.”
